The Curse of the Billy Goat - Ep. 4

The Curse of the Billy Goat is one of the most famous sports curse legends in American history. In 1945, Chicago Cubs fan and Billy Goat Tavern owner William Sianis was kicked out of Wrigley Field after trying to bring his pet goat to the World Series, and according to legend, he cursed the Cubs on the spot. What followed was decades of heartbreak, near-misses, black-cat omens, failed curse-breaking rituals, and one of the longest championship droughts in baseball history.

In this episode of Cursed...ish, we dig into the full story of the Billy Goat Curse, from its origins at Wrigley Field to the Cubs’ dramatic 2016 World Series win. Along the way, we explore Chicago Cubs history, the folklore surrounding sports curses, and the media hysteria that helped turn a bitter moment in 1945 into a legendary baseball myth. Was the Cubs’ losing streak just bad luck, or was the Curse of the Billy Goat real or just cursed...ish?

Questions, comments, or your own accursed tales to share? Send us a hex at uhoh@cursedish.com.

The hosts of Cursed...ish are not responsible for any misfortunes that may befall you while listening to this podcast. By listening to Cursed...ish, you assume all risk of bad luck, ill omens, and unexplained catastrophes.

*Terms and conditions may be upheld by unknown forces.

Transcript

Angela 0:00

He apparently came up to Sienis and said, Let Billy in, but not the goat. Siennis asked him why not, and he replied, Because the goat stinks. Welcome, accursed ones to Cursed, a podcast about misfortune, mystery, and the stories we tell ourselves when bad luck stops feeling random. I'm Angela Mattis.

Daniel 0:28

And I'm Daniel Stevens.

Angela 0:29

So, Daniel, before we dive in, did anything cursed happen to you this week?

Daniel 0:34

Uh I don't know if I'd actually say cursed. It's actually a follow-up on a cursed moment that I mentioned a couple weeks back. Almost a blessed update on it. So I mentioned earlier that I had that cursed moment where I burned my hand.

Angela 0:46

Blessed or blurst?

Daniel 0:48

It's blurst because it arose from a cursed moment. So I had that moment I burned my hand recently, heating up chicken nuggets. And when I when my hand was burned, I realized my fridge. I had realized my fridge was also broken when I was trying to get ice from my burned hand.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

Right.

Daniel 1:06

So I had quite a saga, a couple weeks of figuring out if my fridge was really broken or not, debating if we were gonna have to replace it, which just sounded awful. It was so expensive and a hassle. I ended up calling it first. Yeah, like thought and like just fridges are why you rent so on.

Angela 1:22

This is why you rent until you die.

Daniel 1:24

Definitely one thing to say. But I actually managed to find a part for$20. I hauled the fridge out and I screwed it out, and I put a piece back in and I got it working again for$20. I truly blurst, baby! Like a wonderful, yeah, very blurst moment of something I was really afraid that we were gonna have to spend$2,000 on a new fridge that I did not want to get at all. So yeah. I am all about DIY and fixing. And I always thought appliances couldn't be fixed nowadays. That's that everyone says, but I I truly feel like a magician.

Angela 1:57

20 bucks and some blurstedness later.

Daniel 1:59

Yeah. How about you? How about any any cursed or hopefully blurst maybe moments?

Angela 2:04

Well, speaking of living in apartments for the rest of my life, I had a blurst moment this week because I started at a cursed moment where just generally moving is a straight up curse. And I was, I will say moving sucks, but this one was like a clusterfuck. So I traveled all week last week for work, and I usually come home on like Wednesday or Thursday. But this time I came home at 10:30 p.m. on Friday, and I was moving the next day on Saturday. So literally when the movers showed up, the first thing I said to them was, I'm trying so hard not to be a bitch.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

But it just might happen.

Angela 2:39

Because I was like at wit's end at nine o'clock in the morning on Saturday. Like I have been up all night long moving, like or packing stuff up to get ready for the movers. So it was definitely just like wall-to-wall curses.

Daniel 2:51

Um, but the movies- But you weren't cursing wall to wall.

Angela 2:55

Oh, I was cursing wall to wall while being cursed in my cursed apartment on the 13th floor. Um, it was it was literally everywhere I turned, just curse. Um, but I hired some really great movers. I will, this is completely obviously no one's giving us any kind of ad space, but Coffery Brothers in Chicago, please enjoy their moving services.

Daniel 3:21

Um and I hope I hope you put extra energy into not acting the way that you were threatening that you might.

Angela 3:27

Oh no, literally the guy he goes, ma'am, you just need to sit down on your couch and let us do our job. Just enjoy your morning, have a coffee. And like I I had gotten some coffee and donuts with my sister, and literally he just like read the room. He was like, ma'am, it's like take it easy. It's we've got a true professional. They turned a cursed, cursed situation around into a blurst situation. It was the easiest move ever. That's um, thanks to them. So literally, this is just blurst moment in life.

Daniel 3:57

Sorry, I couldn't be there to help you move, Angela.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Yeah, what you didn't travel across the country.

Angela 4:04

Yeah, you didn't travel across the country to join me for the most awful moving scenario of all moving scenarios in a city. Like nothing is worse. It's never a bad time to visit Chicago, except 90% of the year when it's cold and blustery and awful. Come for the summer. Come for the summer. Um, speaking of Chicago, our curse today is actually a hometown curse.

Daniel 4:36

Ooh.

Angela 4:37

We're going to be discussing the Billy Goat curse.

Daniel 4:41

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Angela 4:43

Are you ready?

Daniel 4:44

I I am not even a sports fan and I know all about this.

Angela 4:47

Me neither. Um, well, it's just after midnight, and the city of Chicago is on fire. This time, it's in a good way, though, because the Chicago Cubs are up against the Cleveland Indians in the seventh game of the World Series. I feel like I'm like a sports announcer. After a 17-minute rain delay, the Cubs have rallied, pulling ahead of the Indians in the bottom of the 10th inning. The score is 8-7, and the Indians are up at bat with two outs.

Daniel 5:12

You're doing a good job as a sports announcer. Thank you.

Angela 5:15

I watch so many YouTube videos over and over and over again. So if there's anybody listening to this that's like, babe, that's not what happened, caught me some slack. I had no idea. I was like Googling, I was Googling like baseball.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

How does baseball work? What is baseball?

Daniel 5:28

Amazing. Uh, you know, I once in one of my earlier jobs working in local TV, I had to do graphics for baseball, and I literally had to learn how baseball works because I didn't know how the rule, like I knew the basics. I've learned, yeah, I grew up in America, but I had to learn about like the count and all of it. I had to learn what the little umpires' hand signals meant and all that. Just so I could put the right graphics on the screen, yeah. During our we rights.

Angela 5:53

Absolutely never. Um, yeah. Today in sports, baseball happened, is about as far as I would be able to take that.

Daniel 6:00

Sorry, go back. Sorry, and one thing I was gonna say, I hope I wish all sports announcers would pepper in jokes about the Chicago Fire. That would be wonderful. You thought I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

It was a joking matter, that's for sure.

Daniel 6:13

Sorry, back to the play-by-play.

Angela 6:15

Sorry, back to my professionalism here. Yeah. Um, after a 17-minute rain delay, the Cubs have rallied, pulling ahead of the Indians in the bottom of the tenth. The score is eight to seven, and the Indians are up at bat with two outs. If the Cubs can keep them from scoring, the championship is theirs. Cleveland's Michael Martinez steps up to bat, and it's not long before he's gotten two strikes. He takes his third swing and gets a hit, sending a ground ball towards third base where it's easily caught by Chris Bryant. Bryant throws to first baseman Anthony Rizzo, and the baseball sinks into his mit, and just like that, it's over. The Chicago Cubs have won the 2016 World Series for the first time in 108 years, ending once and for all the curse of the Billy Goat.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Do I have like a sub-career in sports forecasting what's it called? Sports forecasting sports journalism. Sports broadcasting. Jesus Christ. Broadcasting.

Daniel 7:09

You know the thing you studied in college, Angela.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

I'm gonna stick to my day job.

Daniel 7:14

Um, you know, I I there's not many sports games that I remember, but I sort of actually do remember this. I was never a Cubs fan, but my grandma was a huge Cubs fan, and I do remember her going bonkers when this happened.

Angela 7:29

Oh yeah. I mean, I uh did not live in Chicago at that time, but I distinctly remember the Chicago Cubs when they won. Although it was really interesting when I was researching the curse of the Billy Goat, because I had heard of it. I knew it existed, but it was, I mean, there's a lot of lore around it that I learned. Um, also I do remember when the Blackhawks won. Like there because I've always lived pretty close to Chicago, just not in the actual city. So I feel like I have these like poser adjacent experiences of remembering when they when these things happen. But yeah, it was it was a pretty big deal, and it was really like interesting researching and learning even more so like how big of a deal it was that the Chicago Cubs won.

Daniel 8:10

Yeah, I'm super interested because like I knew it was the curse, but I was just the fact of life my whole life. So I'm like, I never really looked into it.

Angela 8:18

Well, today is the day. You're about to learn all about it. Um, so yeah, let's rewind 71 years. The year is 1945, and a different World Series game is being played. This time it's game four, and the Chicago Cubs are up against the Detroit Tigers. The Cubs were leading the series two to one with four games to go before the championship. A Cubs fan, William Billy Goat Sienis, the owner of the Billy Goat Tavern, which still exists today, by the way, had two tickets to the game. One for himself and one for his pet goat Murphy, who he decided to bring as a good luck talisman, which this is a total 1945 ism that this man would be like, going to the baseball game, let me bring my goat. But he uh tried to bring his goat, and even more so in a 1945, like how small things were.

Daniel 9:05

But people do that all the time now. Everyone's bringing their dog everywhere, so like that makes complete sense.

Angela 9:09

A goat and a dog are not the same.

Daniel 9:13

I mean, I th they're not gonna be able to do that.

Angela 9:14

Have you been to a petting zoo, Daniel?

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Have you been to a petting zoo?

Daniel 9:18

Hey, I love dogs, but goats are not.

Angela 9:28

less so.

Daniel 9:29

I get. I'll give you that that dogs are better well behaved or more well behaved, but they're they're not that different. I just wouldn't be shocked if I walked into Whole Foods and someone had their pet goat with them at this point, is all I'm saying.

Angela 9:40

No, be shocked. That's unacceptable behavior. Be shocked. It was October 6th and it was freezing cold. So Sienna's put a blank over Murphy's back with a sign attached that said, We got Detroit's goat, which I bet was real spit and fire in 1945. So he gets to Wrigley Field, and the Ushers immediately turn him and his goat away, which I am on the side of the Ushers in this one.

Daniel 10:05

Honestly, I'm I'm pro-goat here.

Angela 10:07

You're pro-goat? You think he should have been allowed to bring his goat into Wrigley Field?

Daniel 10:11

Frankly, I'm surprised to find myself on the pro-goat side, but I just naturally it's it's where my heart fell.

Angela 10:17

Okay. Well, I accept your pro-goatism. I am anti-shit-ism, and I'm anti-goat. So again, I guess 1945 things were all quite a bit smaller because after the Ushers turned Sienna's away at Wrigley Field, the owner of the Cubs, Philip K. Wrigley of the Wrigley Gum family, came down to see what the complaint was about. So, like, literally, this man wanted to bring his goat in. The ushers were like, no, you may not. And it went all the way up in 0.5 seconds to the owner of the team.

Daniel 10:54

Okay, I have to say though, I love Chicago and Wrigley Field is iconic, but I went there as a kid once, and a goat being there would not have been the grossest thing about Wrigley Field. That is that is an old state. I just I almost feel like they were getting too ritzy. Like, what are you talking about, Wrigley Field? You have trough urinals. A goat is the least of your concerns.

Angela 11:17

Well, uh, Philip K. Wrigley does not agree with you. He apparently came up to Sienis and said, let Billy in, but not the goat. Siennes asked him why not, and he replied, because the goat stinks. So me and Philly K.

Daniel 11:32

What was the average, the average hygiene of the person back in the 1940s?

Angela 11:36

It was 1945 they had indoor plumbing. It wasn't like it was like fights in the street, and sure.

Daniel 11:43

Like I'm just thinking the goat couldn't have been that egregious.

Angela 11:46

I think it probably was.

Daniel 11:48

Yeah, fine.

Angela 11:49

Anyway, I feel like we can just agree to disagree on this goats hanging out in public.

Daniel 11:55

Or I'll have to curse you for a century if you don't allow my pet goat to come wherever I want it to go.

Angela 12:02

Please. Do you have a pet goat?

Daniel 12:04

Not yet.

Angela 12:05

First, you go and get a pet goat, see how it goes for a couple weeks, and then you can talk your talk.

Daniel 12:10

Okay, okay, fine, fine.

Angela 12:11

All right.

Daniel 12:12

Step one, pet goat.

Angela 12:13

I better hear in a few weeks from now when I asked you if anything cursed has happened in your life, you better tell me all about your new pet and the havoc it's causing.

Daniel 12:21

Do you think it's like the you know how there's the people say there's like that cat distribution system where it's just like a cat will show up in your life as a goat just gonna show up in my life? Oh no.

Angela 12:30

I hope and pray. If you call me and you're like, hey, Angela, a goat's what just happened. I will I will die laughing. And then that will be the real curse. Siennes was infuriated and he stormed away from the field exclaiming, The Cubs ain't gonna win no more. The Cubs will never win a World Series so long as the goat is not allowed in Wrigley Field. And thus the curse was born. So if it was that easy for Sienis, I am fucked with what you just said out loud to me.

Daniel 13:01

No, I didn't mean it though. He meant he did not.

Angela 13:04

Oh, he meant it. Yeah, he meant it.

Daniel 13:05

I never mean it when I curse people.

Angela 13:07

Take back sees?

Daniel 13:08

Yeah, for sure.

Angela 13:09

Okay. Um from that point forward, the Cubs more or less sucked, which is what my memory of growing up in Cubs adjacent land has been of. The Cubs sucking.

Daniel 13:21

I mean, like I said, my grandma, she did not, she was not from Chicago, and my family were not Cubs fans. She was just a Cub fan, and she just wanted the paint merciless to her about her the cubbies. People would always make she called them the cubbies, and they'd always say, Oh, the cubbies doing this year when they knew they were losing. But she would she never saw it. Yeah, she was great. Well, she lived to see 2016, so she she saw the curse break and the rest was history.

Angela 13:48

Um, well, after the next year, or the next year after the curse was born, the Cubs went on to lose the World Series against Detroit. And upon losing, Sienna sent a telegram to Wrigley that said, Who stinks now? What a petty bit. What a petty, petty little bit.

Daniel 14:04

Iconic levels of petty aspirational pettiness.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah.

Angela 14:12

I love that for all of us. Yeah. You said on our first episode, you coined the phrase cursed for cursed history. And I feel like I am going to coin the phrase perspirational.

Daniel 14:26

Curspirational, yes.

Angela 14:29

Although I don't know when exactly would I use the word curspirational. Oh, when like someone has done something petty like this.

Daniel 14:36

Yeah. It's inspirational in a bad, like inspirational in a way that in your worst moments you'll live down to.

Angela 14:43

Yeah. Which is really, really funny because a lot of people who were maybe betting against the Cubs had some cursepirational moments to come because from that point forward, the curse of the Billy Goat Cienus became sensationalized, turning into a running story told by sports columnists and TV commentators as the Cubs tried and failed season after season after season to win the pennant. Literally, wait till next year becomes a common saying every year, in and out. Wait till next year, we'll get it next year. It took a lot of wait till next year's to finally get to the end of it. But 20 years later, Billy Siennes is an old man and he's nearing the end of his run. In 1969, he claimed that he lifted the curse and the Cubs blazed through a rare winning season going up against the Mets. During this game, and I looked this up because this was so unbelievable that I did look this up and find a video of this on YouTube. But a black cat walked across the field, just sauntering across the bases past the Cubs dugout.

Daniel 15:46

And the Mets, of course, Could it be Do we believe in animal reincarnation? Is it the spirit reincarnated of the goat? Into a black cat.

Angela 15:55

I'm sorry, but there is no upgrade package that an animal could possibly have to go from being a goat to then a black cat, because black cats are the best. I love black cats. I was the proud owner of a black cat for 16 and a half years, and I don't ever talk shit about a black cat to me.

Daniel 16:16

Um black cats are great.

Angela 16:18

I know, I would like my black cat back. That's the cat reincarnation I'm looking for. Um yeah, so this black cat just saunters across the field, and of course, like past the Cubs dugout, and the Mets win. And since it was one of those big huge championship games, like they the Mets won, and it was that was it. It was wait till next year.

Daniel 16:40

I love that this curse has style. This curse has style for sure. Like the guy is like, oh, I'm letting it go, and then Black Cat is like, who do we even need to do? I know, like so far.

Angela 16:52

I had the Sansy Diamond, I've had now the Billy Goat curse. Like, there's a little bit of pizzazz to these curses. A year later, Billy Siennis was dead. But of course, the curse was not. His nephew Sam Siennas took over the family business, and from that point forward, he made it his mission to lift the curse. In 1973, legend says that Sam, with the help of Tribune columnist David Condon, dressed up the family pet goat, an ancestor of Murphy's, with a sign saying, All is forgiven, let me lead you to the pennant, your friend Billy Goat. So I do not think that the goat reincarnated as a black cat. I think it just kept with this ruddy old little family line going on down the line.

Daniel 17:34

Yep. Yeah. I love the idea that they still had a family goat that was a descendant.

Angela 17:40

Yes.

Daniel 17:41

I also feel a little bad that he felt the need to like dedicate his life to breaking the curse. That's like a that's there's some like psychology there of like.

Angela 17:58

So with the help of Bill Condon, this tribune columnist who was writing about, I think he really kind of got people talking about the curse and like kept it perpetuated because they brought the goat in a white limousine with a red carpet and everything to Wrigley Field to try and get the goat into the game. And the goat was turned away. No. Like it literally came like fresh and ready. I'm imagining it in like a little tuxedo, like sauntering on out of its white limousine, red carpet and everything, and they were like, no.

Daniel 18:31

Wait, the I'm sorry, but they didn't plan ahead and like they didn't talk to people and say, like, hey, we're gonna do this. That's insane to me. That or they did they're gonna be able to do that on purpose.

Angela 18:42

Maybe there was some subterfuge at play because of course Condon still got a great story writing. The Cubs had their golden opportunity to cast out the devil on July 4th, so the hex still holds. But he would have had a great headline had they won. He would have said the curse is broken, he would have gotten some some mileage on that. So I don't know.

Daniel 19:00

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think they just wanted a good story either way.

Angela 19:04

Yeah, it was a good story either way. By 1984, the Cubs decided that it was time to start playing ball. Yes, I know, stupid pun. And they invited Sam Sienis to finally bring his pet goat into the stadium to walk the field. And I do kind of wonder if it got the limousine treatment that time around as well.

Daniel 19:21

But if I were that goat, I wouldn't get out of bed for anything less than a limousine ride.

unknown 19:26

Yeah.

Angela 19:26

If I were that goat, I'd have a paycheck by now. So they bring the goat in, Sam declares the curse lifted, and the cubs start winning. They made it all the way to the National League Championship series. They're ahead in the series, they're leading against the Padres, three to two. And then suddenly things begin to go south. A catch is missed, an ace pitcher suddenly loses his edge, and the Padres clinch the series, and the Cubs are out. So it is See you next year.

Daniel 19:56

So close though.

Angela 19:57

Once again. Oh wait, sorry, wait till next year. It is wait till next year once again.

Daniel 20:02

Wait till next year. I honest I kind of like that. I am a procrastinator at heart, so wait till next year just speaks to my soul.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

It was really put the brakes on the case.

Angela 20:12

But I feel like this one had a little bit of bitterness to it because they got close. Although, isn't it interesting that every time the Sienas family does something goat-related that goes well, suddenly the Cubs gotta pop in?

Daniel 20:25

Yeah, I mean, making it to making it to playoffs, championships, like that, that in and of itself is hard. There's many teams. I mean, yes, everyone's talking about the Cubs have being cursed. I'm there's gotta be teams that have won fewer times than the Cubs or have there's probably teams that have never won the pennant for as long as they just.

Angela 20:45

Yeah, find out. But in the meantime, I almost kind of feel like the Sienna's curse is now a Russian doll curse inside the Billy Goat curse because it happens again where a few years later in 1984, Sam Sienis got another shot at curse breaking and he brought the goat in. They did a whole walk around on opening day, and once again the Cubs were on fire. They got all the way up to the division title, which they won, and then they go into the next series, which I'm not even gonna try to figure out what if that was the World Series or God knows what, but either which way they move on after winning the division title, only to lose to the San Francisco Giants, and their dreams of winning the World Series are dead once again. So wait till next year, once again.

Daniel 21:34

I did look it up. There are teams that have never won. None of which have been around as long. You know, I mean, the Billy Go curses from 1945 to 2016, so 60 years. The Seattle Mariners have never won, and they were founded in 1977. So that's getting close. Also, the Milwaukee Brewers have never won, the San Diego Hawkins, the Tampa Bay Rays, or the Colorado Rockies have never won. But none of whom have had as well. Yeah, yeah, Brewers have done well. But uh but can you tell him from Wisconsin?

Angela 22:03

I literally just said the Brewers have been getting close to the city.

Daniel 22:05

Don't you know the Brewers are doing real well.

Angela 22:07

Don't you know? Yeah.

Daniel 22:09

Um other teams have not won, but the losing streak of the Cubs is still longer than all of those teams have existed.

Angela 22:15

Yeah. And I mean, something is clearly awry with this with this curse.

Daniel 22:21

I d I think you're on to something with the whole like it seems to ebb and flow with public notice of the curse. And like obviously the team isn't playing harder or worse because people are talking about the curse. Like they're doing their best they can every year.

Angela 22:37

Right. The Russian doll curse. Yeah. By 1994, the Cubs are doing terribly. In their 1994 season, they lost 12 games in a row, which is a horrific streak by any measure. Desperate fans, and this is 50 years after the curse has begun. Desperate fans called for Sam Siennas to come to Wrigley and walk the field with his pet goat, chanting, Let the goat in, when the Ushers try yet again to bar him entrance. So you were alive, then you could have been there. This was this could have been a beautiful day in the life of Daniel's.

Daniel 23:06

Little Daniel should have been down there protesting at Wrigley Field for the French.

Angela 23:14

sign I am mighty.

Daniel 23:16

If only I knew I was gonna be on the goat side all these years later.

Angela 23:19

If only. This time, though, Hall of Famer Ernie Banks came to the rescue and he personally escorted Sam and the Billy Goat into Wrigley Field.

SPEAKER_04 23:28

Good guy.

Angela 23:28

And the Cubs won the game, which ended their 12-game losing streak, but still no championship.

unknown 23:34

Yeah.

Daniel 23:34

The Cubs finished last year.

Angela 23:37

No, this was not the one. Um, the Cubs finished last in the National League Central Division with a 49 to 64 record. Oops. So four years later in 1998, the Cubs were on a winning streak with Sammy Sosa as their MVP, and oh boy, do I remember the Sami Sosa days. They made it all the way to the wild card game against the San Francisco Giants. So in an effort to play a wildcard of their own, Sam and his GOAT were ushered into onto the field one more time before the game, and they clinched the wildcard win, only to get shot out on the road with a losing series in Atlanta. So I'm telling you, there's a Russian doll effect curse going on here. There is a curse within a curse.

Daniel 24:16

I agree. There's there's definitely it it's more than just like, oh, they haven't won in uh in X years.

Angela 24:24

And they keep trying and they keep bringing Sam Cienus in and they keep like talking about.

Daniel 24:29

They're just not doing the right thing to get rid of it or something. Yeah, that's like not doing the right hokey pokey in the right order.

Angela 24:36

Correct. In the early 2000s, all the way to 2016, the Cubs saw varying success, making it more than once all the way up to the final championship game and then losing. As a result, and due to growing frustration, many attempts were made over the next decade and a half to burk to break the curse. In 2003, which was the Chinese Zodiac year of the goat, a group of Cubs fans traveled to Houston carrying a Billy Goat named Virgil Homer. Their plan was to bring the goat into Minute Made Park, where the Cubs were playing the Astros, who were division rivals at the time. Guess what happened?

Daniel 25:09

Well, I mean, I think we all know what Minute Made Park was gonna say to a goat.

Angela 25:13

They were gonna say, absolutely not. Yeah.

Daniel 25:16

I mean, they couldn't even pull that in Chicago where like people wanted it to happen, of course.

Angela 25:22

So, yeah, they were denied entry. But outside the park, the group unfurled a scroll that publicly declared that they were reversing the curse.

Daniel 25:29

We all know if once something is on a scroll, that makes it official, though, too.

Angela 25:33

Yes. We should put that in our like like I feel like we're doing a little investigation. Like, what made the Russian doll effect curse? What undid it?

Daniel 25:40

Parchment and scroll for sure, just yeah.

Angela 25:43

I need to keep that in mind next time I feel particularly accursed. Just get up my scroll of parchment and get a scroll.

Daniel 25:52

Yeah.

Angela 25:53

There you go, everyone. We have cracked it. How to become uncursed.

Daniel 25:58

It's all about stationary.

Angela 25:59

Yes, they unfurled their scroll that publicly declared that they were reversing the curse, and that season the Cubs won the division. And then they made it to the National League Championship series and came within five outs of reaching the World Series before everything collapsed. The Cubs were up against the Florida Marlins, batting battling it out when the Marlins went on an eight-run rally. After two straight losses, the series was over, and the Marlins went on to win the World Series. So, yeah, from there, attempts to reverse the curse escalated. In 2017, a butchered goat was hung from the Harry Carey statue, which is disgusting. And it didn't even break the curse. People should have known better.

Daniel 26:40

If anything, like hey, a corpse of an animal seems like it would add to the curse.

Angela 26:44

Yeah, like absolutely macabre. I don't even want to think about what that looked like in real life. The Cubs did not win the World Series that year for sure, or the next year. They were swept in the first round of the playoffs both times. And in 2007, the Cubs were eliminated by the Diamondbacks on October 6th, which was the same date the original goat was ejected from Ridley Field in 1945. Bit of a reach, but still it was.

Daniel 27:09

I mean, that date clearly matters. An infamous date.

Angela 27:13

Yes. Now we have luckily moved on from hanging carcasses of goats off of statues. And in 2008, a Greek Orthodox priest sprayed holy water in and around the Cubs dugout during the playoffs. And honestly, I hope he got the Harry Carey statue too, because it sounds like it probably needed a little bit of holy water.

Daniel 27:29

Yeah, honestly, just any water, just rinse it off would probably be a good idea, frankly.

Angela 27:34

Yeah. But nothing there was nothing came of that. The curse was still in effect. And there were more goats. In 2011, there was the launch of Reverse the Curse, which was a charity that redirected the goat motif toward poverty relief and providing livestock to families in developing countries, which later expanded into education and childhood health initiatives. Yeah, like there was some good stuff that came out of it.

Daniel 27:58

That's nice. Yeah.

Angela 27:59

Yeah. Um, in 2012, a group of Cubs fans walked from the team's spring training site in Arizona to Wrigley Field with a goat they believed could end the curse while raising money for cancer research. So again, more really great things happening. Although sucks to be that goat who had to walk across the country not even knowing what the heck was going on. It was like, why the fuck am I walking so much these days? And didn't even didn't even change the curse. Although, again, I I like that by a it only took 50 semad years, or I don't know, what's 2011 minus 1945. But it only took however many years for them to start like turning it into a charitable thing and raising money for research. So at least we got there.

Daniel 28:40

66 years.

Angela 28:41

Thank you. Um, alongside these efforts, there were a few also kind of more macabre attempts, such as a severed goat's head was delivered to the team ownership in 2013. What is with these corpses? I know. And in 2015, a competitive eating contest was held in which a 40-pound goat was consumed by five men in a total of 13 minutes and 22 seconds. Fucking appalling. Yikes.

Daniel 29:07

Yeah. I mean, that is like piranha levels of devouring. What is going on in Chicago?

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Oh, I don't even know.

Daniel 29:18

I mean, I have met Chicagoans before. I guess I'm not that shocked that they could devour.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

I am one! I know.

Angela 29:25

And I am not housing goats at any rate. Okay.

unknown 29:28

Yeah.

Angela 29:29

I mean four of my friends are not pirana eating a goat. Yeah, but that's I'm in a transplant. That's why I act right. I behave myself. Just kidding. I don't want anybody in Chicago to say that I don't think they're acting right.

unknown 29:42

No, yeah.

Angela 29:43

Everyone here is lovely. We're all friends and we're all having a good old time. No, I'm just kidding. No, Chicago is like literally the best city in the world, so we do not make it a regular thing to consume goats like ravished animals ourselves. It's I haven't seen it happen the entire time I've lived here. Um, anyway, luckily 2016 rolls along.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

I'm just imagining now actually you like walking down the street and just witnessing people tearing a goat apart.

Angela 30:12

Not yet. It has not happened yet, but the day is still young. Yeah. It can always happen. Um, luckily though, 2016 rolls along, and the Cubs are finally successful. According to the Billy Goat Tavern's website, as the Cubs went into extra innings against the Cleveland Indians, Sam Cianis rang the Trocani bell worn by Billy Goat's original goat from the 1945 World Series, and of course, the curse was broken.

Daniel 30:39

This time.

Angela 30:40

This time, yes. And so actually, obviously that was an incredible moment and the breaking of a 108-year curse, and I I wish that I could have been in Chicago for it because, like I said, I was joking before. This city is like such an incredible city filled with people who just have like the best hearts and the most like passion and backbone. Like it's just one of those I always think of like um, like I think one of the nicknames for Chicago is like the city of Big Shoulders, and it's just it really is such a like such a richly cultured, beautiful city, and I really, really hope that in the time that I live here we have some sort of like we literally, we almost won, we almost got to the Super Bowl this year. We I think had a really good run for the World Series recently, and I I mean I would just I bet this city is just the most incredible place in the world when we've got a championship under our belts because I lived in Milwaukee when we won for the Bucs, when we won the world championship, and if it was incredible in Milwaukee, and Milwaukee is a great city, but like Chicago is oh god, it must have just been I can't imagine how great Chicago would have been when they I know it must have just been amazing. So I'm really happy for Chicago that they finally broke the curse because it was a great city.

Daniel 31:59

I mean, it was uh like a momentous occasion when that happened.

Angela 32:03

Yes, and your grandma, I'm so happy she got to see see her cubbies win.

Daniel 32:07

She absolutely did. That was, I mean, she she held out for that and held on for a cute a few more years, but yeah, that was like she she could essentially die happy at that moment. That was truly it was such a big deal to her.

Angela 32:21

Aw. Well, it has been a big deal to many people too, and become part of pop culture many times along the way. The curse um was actually featured in Back to the Future Part 2, which came out in 1989. It depicted the Cubs defeating the Miami Gators, a fictional baseball team, in the 2015 World Series, which ended the longest drought in all four of the North American professional sports leagues. In reality, though, the Cubs were eliminated from the playoffs by the Mets in 2015, and then, of course, as we all know, they went on to win the World Series the following year, and the Back to the Future Twitter account tweeted that the prediction was one year off due to the 1994-95 Major League Baseball strike.

Daniel 33:03

So I give them credit for figuring that. I give them credit too. That was very greedy. That's amazing.

Angela 33:09

I will take a clever little workaround.

Daniel 33:11

So that's credit where credit is due. That is a great way for them to handle being off by a year. I mean, that's amazing that they were only off by a year when they wrote that little throwaway line.

Angela 33:21

So now we've definitely heard of other dynastic, you know, curses ruining winning streaks left and right for other major teams, and perhaps we'll talk about some of them in other episodes. But even as you said in your research, there are teams that have never gone to the World Series. So I don't know, what do we think? Is it just rules of the game that this kind of a thing can happen?

Daniel 33:43

Or there's there's definitely what this curse, what this sports curse has, that everyone else who feels like their team is cursed doesn't have is it has a great story, it has that thing about the goat, and it's an old, you know, from the 1940s, a different, a totally different society from what we are now. So it's just like old curse. You know, if someone tried to bring their pet cat to a Colorado Rockies game and cursed because they're just not the same vibe anymore. So it's like there's there's something there. I mean, every sports fan, I'm sure, has sat through horrible season after season. I mean, I you know, I've watched sports fans in my life just feel agonized when their teams keep losing and they they get their hopes up that it's gonna happen this season and then it doesn't. So it makes sense.

Angela 34:34

I mean, 108 years is a long time. That's a long drought for a team like the Chicago Cubs that, for all intents and purposes, I mean, as Chicago, you should have the money for good players. It's like you should be on the same level as New York teams, but yeah.

Daniel 34:50

Yeah, yeah.

Angela 34:50

I mean What is your vote? Did you say cursed or cursed-ish?

Daniel 34:54

I vote this I think uh I think this is cursed-ish. This I think it's just a way to explain away what every sports fan is used to.

Angela 35:03

Interesting. I'm on the other side of it this time. I'm gonna say cursed. I think 108 years is a long time.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Okay, you think that there is more to it?

Angela 35:15

Curse. I think the whole every time Sam Cienis tried to break it, they had like some spectacular pop of win and then just absolute like nosedive. I think there was a lot of things that play. I think it was a real curse, but I don't know. It's like I guess up to the universe. I think it was cursed.

Daniel 35:36

Maybe cursed, maybe not. See you all next week.

Angela 35:46

Cursedish is an ish media production. It explores stories of alleged curses, historical mysteries, and supernatural claims. While we do investigate the history and the evidence behind these stories, ultimately you should decide for yourself what to believe. If you have questions, comments, or your own accursed tales to share, send us a hex at uh oh at cursedish.com. That's uho u h o h all one word at cursdish all one word.com.