The Curse of the Hope Diamond - Ep. 14

The Hope Diamond is one of the most famous jewels in the world, but is it also one of the most cursed?

In this episode of Cursed...ish, we follow the allegedly-cursed Hope Diamond from its origins as the Tavernier Blue to the French royal court, through revolution, scandal, suspiciously dramatic deaths, and eventually into its current home at the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C. Along the way, we dig into the science behind the diamond’s impossible blue color, the legend that it was stolen from a Hindu idol, the French Blue’s connection to Louis XIV, Louis XVI, Marie Antoinette, and the chaos of the French Revolution, plus the tragic story of a Washington socialite who owned the diamond before it became a museum icon. 

We also ask the important questions. Did the Hope Diamond really leave ruin in its wake? Was Pierre Cartier helped by one of the greatest curse-marketing campaigns of all time? Did they tempt fate by mailing the diamond to the Smithsonian for $2.44 in postage? And most importantly, was this blue little menace actually cursed, or did centuries of wealth, power, colonial plunder, tabloid storytelling, and human disaster just happen to sparkle in the same direction?

From royal necks to a Great Dane named Mike, from Versailles to the Smithsonian’s Natural History Museum, this is the story of the Hope Diamond curse: part history, part folklore, part luxury-object crime scene.

Maybe cursed. Maybe not. Definitely dramatic.

Questions, comments, or your own accursed tales to share? Send us a hex at uhoh@cursedish.com.

The hosts of Cursed...ish are not responsible for any misfortunes that may befall you while listening to this podcast. By listening to Cursed...ish, you assume all risk of bad luck, ill omens, and unexplained catastrophes.

*Terms and conditions may be upheld by unknown forces.

Transcript

Angela 0:00

The depression hits, and the Frankel family is also trying to sell the diamond. But who is buying goose egg-sized diamonds at a time like this in this economy?

Daniel 0:08

Imagine what it was not a seller's market. Yeah.

Angela 0:22

Welcome, Accursed Ones to Cursed Ish, a podcast about misfortune, strange happenings, and the general skullduggery that comes along with just being alive. I'm Angela Mattis.

Daniel 0:32

And I'm Daniel Stevens.

Angela 0:34

Daniel, I'm very excited because today we're going to discuss one of my favorite types of cursed objects that I love to research. And it's also one that we have not only both seen in real life, but we saw it together.

Daniel 0:48

Ooh.

Angela 0:49

Yes.

Daniel 0:49

So you're saying we've we've escaped our fate already, or maybe our fate still lies ahead of us?

Angela 0:55

Uh I don't know. Actually, now that I think about it, I'm like, well, this happened at a very pinpointed time in my life, and has a lot of bad stuff happened since then? Yes. So maybe I have been. Okay, before we go down that path, let's dive in. Alright, it was my 30th birthday.

Daniel 1:13

This was like I didn't catch that.

Angela 1:17

It was my 30th birthday. So that was like five years from now in the future. And I had come to Washington, DC with two very important goals in mind. I wanted to find and fall in love with a lizard man of my very own. And I wanted to see the Hope Diamond. I love a diamond curse, and let me tell you, we're we're in for a good one today. But um, yeah, I mean, perfect scenario. I still actually remember walking into the gem room and it like just being this like monolith in the middle, all in its glass case, turning in a circle. It was very, very beautiful and very exciting. I did not find a lizard man though. I'm unfortunately I do I do not have my reptile in a suit, a skin suit, waking up next to me in bed every morning. Not yet. There's still time.

Daniel 2:17

One day you and he will control the world from behind the scenes.

Angela 2:20

Someday, yes. That's that's what I can hope for. But yes, we did meet a very famous accursed diamond herself, the Hope Diamond. And um, it's actually kind of uh, I guess, honestly, this is the least interesting thing about her, is I didn't know this, but what really initially made the Hope Diamond stand out is that it's like the blueness of it is really impossible, actually. Um, and the Heart of the Ocean was inspired by the Hope Diamond, which I don't think that's a far stretch.

Daniel 2:51

When you said the blueness of it, I was like, wait, is that just what they did? Like, is so the heart of the ocean is the Hope Diamond, essentially. Like, just thematically, it's basically supposed to be the Hope Diamond.

Angela 3:01

I think so, yeah.

Daniel 3:02

Okay.

Angela 3:03

Um, because yeah, I thought that that was I I just it never really crossed my mind how rare it is. But there's like a scientific explanation for it, so I'm very excited because I get to sound very smart when I explain this.

Daniel 3:14

Some sort of uh exact chemical formula inside it that gives it its blue hue. Amazing.

Angela 3:19

Oh no, listen to me go. The Hope Diamond's impossible blue color is primarily due to a rare high concentration of boron atoms trapped within its carbon crystal structure, apparently eight parts per million, which is far more than most natural blue diamonds. Boron impurities, which can originate from subducted ocean crust billions of years ago, absorb red, yellow, and green light, creating a deep, fancy, dark grayish blue hue.

Daniel 3:45

A very boron fact.

Angela 3:47

Yeah, a very boron. Actually, also sidetrack, but like parts per million to me is a hilarious unit of measurement. And I have lived in apartments with pools for a really long time, and for some reason, my brain just like immediately when I see a kid in the pool, I always think to myself, I think of the kid peeing in the pool, and I'm like, ugh, how many parts per million is that?

Daniel 4:09

Parts per million is great because it's only ever described in things that you're like, ew, I really don't like that it's I'm being exposed to it, but also it's so such a small amount that I have to just ignore it. Yeah. It's really nothing good is ever measured in parts per million. It's always like insect pieces purse, tablespoon of peanut butter.

Angela 4:29

Oh no! Yeah, but it is my favorite unit of measure. I love when I can discuss something in parts per million. Um, okay, so again, like I said, the Hope Diamond, I feel like we are living in her very like benevolent sta stage of life where she's just trapped in a museum. But this girl was wild. She was wild and out for a long time.

Daniel 4:52

I have to say, I really, I mean, I've seen it countless times. We'll get to that. But I don't know anything about the history of it. I've just always been like the thing, the big diamond in the room that we see at the museum that I go to with whenever anyone visits town.

Angela 5:05

Oh, she was the big diamond in the room for sure. Um, there are many, many, many, many people who attribute their misfortunes to her curse. But I found that I feel like there are four really key alleged victims. Well, I guess five of you count. Jack, or I don't know, maybe Cal. Whoever. Sorry, I had to get my lame Titanic joke again. Anyway, so um we begin with Jean-Baptiste Tavernier. And Jean-Baptiste was a French gem merchant who was said to be the first owner of the diamond.

Daniel 5:37

Wait, Jean-Baptiste Tenier is French, I would never believe it.

Angela 5:41

I know. I also started calling him JBT a little bit in my research. So if I slip and call him JBT, that was because although Jean-Baptiste Tavernier, oh, such a solid name. Unfortunate man, but solid name. Um, but he is the first recorded owner, and he owned the diamond in 1665. Now, it's interesting because if you think back to our episode about the Sanssee Diamond, she lived an entire life before she became the Sansy Diamond. Like lots of, she was up to a lot of skullduggery. And I will say the Hulk Diamond has a lot of different names, but it's interesting, like, we start at Jean-Baptiste Tavernier, and he got her from the diamond mine. Like, her backstory starts in 1665. Like, that's when she was dug out of the ground.

Daniel 6:29

Okay, so she wasn't moving around as a different thing and just cut down into a different gem.

Angela 6:33

Yeah, she she missed her French battlefield era big time. But I don't think they needed it. Sans was out there cleaning the house.

Daniel 6:41

There was more than enough, more than enough nonsense coming from the Sansy Diamond. Belle de Flandre, if I recall at the time.

Angela 6:48

Oh yeah, the Belle de Flandre. Um, yes, if anyone is curious about this episode we're discussing, it's episode two, the Sansy Diamond. But, anyways, yeah, this bitch was just in a mine being very boring, very boron, very path. Just live in her boron. Oh wow, that actually had a lot of layers because. Oh god, okay, stop me, please. But anyway, so at this point in time, she's 116 carats. And I don't think she was known as the Tavernier Blue then, but at points in her life, she was known as the Tavernier Blue after Jean-Baptiste Tavernier. Um, he I think referred to her more as like the French blue. Also, at one point, her name was Les Bijou de Roy, the King's Jewel. I'm like, does that not sound like a slut era if there ever was one? Like Les Bijou de Roy. I hope she did all kinds of dirty things in that point in time. Lots of eras, lots of self-reinvention. So, anyway, um, JBT. He's a merchant and he travels all around buying jewels and luxury goods to sell to fancy people. And along the way, he's like, he's writing letters, he writes a book. Like, he sounds like he's very eccentric, and he's like one of those world travelers. Of course, merchants of the time, that's what they did. They were out on ships going from port to port.

Daniel 8:06

Just out in the world gem maxing.

Angela 8:08

Yeah, just oh yeah, totally. Um, gem maxing. Um, so he he wrote a lot and there's a lot of a paper trail on this guy, but it's like a total mess. Like, things don't make sense. Um, I honestly think that like maybe he was embellishing a lot. And so it's really funny because there's all these ridiculous stories about him. First of all, the pr like the way he got the jewel, there is like a a story that may or may not be true that he stole the diamond from a Hindu idol in India, and it was one of its eyes, and he plucked it out of the Hindu idol and stole it. And then the monks that owned the idol cursed him, and that's how the curse began. I mean Is this true? Who's to say? Because also there's all this. Well, like, I know that maybe that could be true, but I haven't there's like JBT, there's all kinds of stupid shit about him. Apparently, then the curse took hold and he fell ill with a terrible fever, but then wait, no, he was torn apart by wild dogs. Like, no, actually, he died of old age.

Daniel 9:13

Oh. So there's just basically a lot of tall tales about this guy. Yeah. Okay. And said and separating fact from fiction is maybe a fool's errand by this point, yeah. Hundreds of years later.

Angela 9:24

Right.

Daniel 9:24

I mean So either which way I I kind of would like to think he was torn apart by wild dogs.

unknown 9:30

Yeah.

Daniel 9:32

Yeah, for if that's what he wanted to be known as. The guy who was torn apart by wild dogs.

Angela 9:37

But like also considering he's the one who created a lot of like just mess in his own story, like, how did that one get out there? Um But yeah, no, it's not interesting at all. He died of old age, and before he did that, like honestly, he only had the diamond for a few years. And because he's a gem merchant, like he's not holding on to that. So Tavernier, he sold the diamond to our next alleged victim. Actually, I don't know if this next person is like an alleged victim, but I would like to put him up for nomination into the alleged victim pool. His name is, have you ever heard of him before? King Louis XIV of France, also known as the Sun King.

Daniel 10:17

I mean, I he seems I don't know if I'd call him a victim.

Angela 10:21

Well, we'll talk about it. So, I mean, Louis XIV, I've been to his house. The man was not known for restraint.

Daniel 10:28

He had you over for afternoon tea?

Angela 10:30

Yes, we gabbed, we chatted, we talked all kinds of hot gas. Yeah, so he had the stone recut to meet the aesthetic standards of the day, and the result was a 69 carat diamond described as roughly the size of a pigeon's egg, which he wore suspended on a ribbon around his neck, which sounds very, very cute. Very, very baby. Like he was just prancing around Versailles, all excited and all giggly with his little 69 carat diamond. Not a coincidence, probably. Um, also, apparently it could be used as a hat pin, and I'm only imagining that to be nothing short of decadent. And if you recall, the Sansy at one point in time bedazzled uh King Henry's little cap. So it seems to be a thing among these monarchs that they like to just razzle-dazzle their little hats with goose egg-sized diamonds. So fun, fun for them. Um no, honestly, I'm only calling him an alleged victim because I think that he would enjoy that. I think he would like that notoriety. Um, but he's like I said, he's not considered to be an official victim of the diamond, but he did die a pretty nasty death. His like legs started going all funky and he died of gangrene.

Daniel 11:40

So But I mean, he still was the one of the most powerful kings in French history, lived in opulence, was unchecked in his power.

Angela 11:49

But isn't it kind of again like that poetic justice, the cosmic karma, that like these like the more we learn about these people that had this ridiculous amount of wealth and just grandeur, like Versailles is an obscene locale. Um like to die of such a disgusting as gangrene, it's a little bit like like there is something out there evening the scales.

Daniel 12:12

Well if I I mean to me, that's one of those as powerful as they were back then, they couldn't, you know, they couldn't stop the smallest a microbe from killing him, and they didn't I mean did they even understand uh germ theory I always go back. I mean they they I mean they core they sort of understood like illnesses passing around, but they definitely didn't understand. They were figuring it out. Gangrene is a whole other box of worms because that's not even an infection, is it? It's that's like when you start straight up rotting while you're alive, isn't it?

Angela 12:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know much about gangrene, it hasn't really been on my research radar, but um yeah, add that to the list. But one thing that has been on my research radar in times of my life is the bubonic plague, and that was like from the 1300s to the 1600s-ish. It was still kind of popping up here and there, and that was like that was their big um like lots and lots of cause and effect. So many people died. So, like, that's when they started figuring out germ theory a little bit.

Daniel 13:08

So I also think, yeah, there was still a lot of superstitions at the time. I mean, they were blaming witches and such at the time, even though it was fleas, but yeah, it was a long history of people figuring out why we keel over and die for seemingly no reason.

Angela 13:20

Yeah, basically, who knows? So after King Louis XIV dies, the jewel stays in the royal collection and it's just kind of dicking around, watching, waiting, and it's passed to his successor, Louis XV. And Louis XV has it reset into an elaborate ceremonial emblem for something called the Order of the Golden Fleece, which is confusing because the Order of the Golden Fleece is a knighthood, but it also, first of all, it sounds like it could be like a title of one of the Narnia books, or like Harry Potter and the Order of the Golden Fleece.

Daniel 13:54

The Golden Fleece was what Jason and the Arconauts were going after from Greek mythology. They like the the Argo, the boat, that's they were searching for the Golden Fleece. I don't know what it is, that's what I've it's what it was I've heard of it called when I was a kid.

Angela 14:08

I'm sure it's not as far stone to throw to assume that the uh this line of French kings were uh aligning themselves with mythological gods, which honestly, again, doesn't fare well for anybody, mythological gods included.

Daniel 14:23

So Yeah, it totally makes sense to me that they would like name something after this mythological thing to like st almost latch themselves on to that, you know, like cultural knowledge.

Angela 14:36

Well, this real thing is a piece of art, genuinely. Like the the golden f or the order of the golden fleece, it's I like have a hard time explaining it. Like I am like looking at a picture of it, and it's like this big huge necklace thing that I think kind of goes across a man's like armored chest. And then there's a piece of it that is like a red ribbon, and there's like this big huge brooch situation, and there's like this like blue diamond-y crown thing, and then in the middle, um, there's like a red dragon believed to be carved from a ruby, and then so this like sheepskin thing that is like this golden fleece, it is honestly to me an unsettling image. It's like the carcass of a sheep with all of its inside scooped out, and so it's all floppy, and like their ring is around the middle of its body, so it's just yeah, so it's just kind of like dangling, like um, like this pathetic little like you can almost just hear the sheep being like just like dangling from its hollowed-out carcass. And this has been made out of um gold and probably gems, but in the middle of the whole like ruby dragon situation, the diamond is put into the middle of it, and it's like like I said, 69 carats. Um, so it's a big deal, and this thing is just massive. And it but then again, like they made the whole thing, and then I think it just kind of like sits in the diamond collection for a while. And like Louis XV, he is not on our list of alleged victims. He did end up getting smallpox, and after an agonizing, rapid decline, his body was entirely covered in pustules and was turning black. So he didn't go well either, but I don't think that it was attributed to the curse.

Daniel 16:28

I don't know. This d uh, there's gangrene, then he seems like he just started rotten while he was bumbling. Well, he got smallpox. Yeah, but it seems like this diamond might just be like wear me and I will rot you from your core.

Angela 16:43

Well, I guess uh yeah, maybe this was I feel like I would love it. And honestly, you know what? We're coming full circle here because this was her slut era, I'm assuming. And um, because this was probably when she was known as the um Le Beach de Roy, the king's jewel. So, like, I love it. I love the idea that she was like just like slipping in the shadows and being like, you know, working and doing her business, but like not I sometimes, you know, sometimes you don't always need credit for the bullshit you get up to. Sometimes things just happen how they're supposed to, and you sit back and rub your little rat paws together and think about it.

Daniel 17:23

She's like, I am Bijou, the silent assassin.

Angela 17:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel 17:29

Watch out for your extremities.

Angela 17:30

They're turning black when I'm gonna rat you from the inside out and all your limbs are gonna fall off. Yeah. You cute little baby, as you prance around with me on a ribbon around your neck.

Daniel 17:43

Yeah, she's like, um bisou de bijou.

Angela 17:47

Yes. How do you say the um bisou de death? I don't know. I don't know how to speak French last time I was in Paris.

Speaker 17:53

Neither of us, neither of us.

Angela 17:55

Last time I was in Paris, I said porfavour to a waiter and he laughed in my face.

Daniel 18:00

So I am He should have.

Angela 18:03

He should have. And then he made me leave him when I wasn't supposed to. Yeah. Yeah. He handed me a map and said adios. Actually, I would have respected him if he said that.

Daniel 18:18

That actually would have been a pretty epic response.

Angela 18:22

And I'm so mad because I had so I've been to Paris more than once, and the first time I just also slandered the French language miserably. But I like wrote things in my phone. Like I had written in my phone je ne parlais pas français Je ne parlais francais or whatever. How to say, like, I don't speak French. And like every time someone came up to me and I had an opportunity to say it, I seized up. Like I could not get it out. I was so stupid. And then I would just like say stupid stuff and it was bad. But I got by just fine.

Daniel 18:52

I'm yeah, you always just need to learn at the bare minimum when you're going to a new place. I feel like you learn yes, no, thank you, hello, and I do not speak this language.

Angela 19:03

Anyway, we gotta get back on track, otherwise we'll be here all day long. Um, okay, so next on our list of victims, and these ones, I think we can solidly place them onto our list of our alleged victims. Um, they were a man and a woman, husband and wife, and their names are King Louis XVI and his wife Marie Antoinette. And they are, like I said, they're considered to be very well known, maybe some of the most well-known victims of the Hope Diamonds Curse. Um, although, I mean, like we said, apparently being covered in pustules and turning black and running from the inside out means shit compared to a dual beheading in a French Revolution. But hey, I didn't make the curse up of the monk in India did.

Daniel 19:50

I mean, I would take the beheading over slow gangrene, but that's just me.

Angela 19:55

But did you know that the Hope Diamond was working, moving and shaking during the French Revolution, and the um the royals Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVI are not her only victims.

Daniel 20:09

Oh.

Angela 20:11

Yes. So during this time, or during like the Marie Antoinette heyday, um, the diamond was worn by one of her confidants and her like, you know, like the favorite.

Daniel 20:23

Yeah.

Angela 20:23

By a woman named Marie Therese Louise of Savoy, Princess de Lambao, or I don't know how to pronounce it. L-A-M-B-A-L-L-E. Help me here.

Daniel 20:32

Oh, wait.

Angela 20:33

L-A-M-B-A-E-A-Lam Bay L-A-M-B-A-L-L. Lambal.

Daniel 20:38

I would say Lamba. Lambal. I again I don't know. French.

Angela 20:42

French escapes me, but leave this in here so people just can join us along the for the ride.

Daniel 20:50

Some French person or French francophone is just screaming.

Angela 20:54

Well, feel free to send us a hex at uh-oh at cursedish.com telling us how to speak French. Yeah. I need it like phonetically typed out, please and thank you. But anyway, so she is, of course, like a very close friend of Marie Antoinette. Um but she comes onto the scene um in France in like French, French aristocracy, um, because she was doing what like you know typical rich people did at the time. And she was getting married at the age of 18 in a political marriage to join two noble houses, the houses Bourbon and Savoy. Yeah, and actually, like she gets married when she's 18, and it's the typical, like, you know, like they didn't know them beforehand. It was like a marriage by proxy, and then they had, of course, a bedding ceremony and all that fun stuff. Um, but they thought each other were really hot. Like she and her husband were like, they were into it, they were happy at first, until he was found in bed with two actresses and broke her heart and she was very upset. But then a year later, he died of venereal disease.

Daniel 21:55

I mean, a more poetic ending.

Angela 21:57

Yeah, so um he left her as a 19-year-old widow, and she inherited all of his money, which was great. Like she was doing really great.

Daniel 22:04

Hmm, fuck around and find out, guy. Literally.

Angela 22:07

Yeah. Her Wikipedia page also describes her as having a very close friendship with her father-in-law. Um, apparently, he persuaded her to abandon her wish to become a nun to instead stay with him and become his daughter. Which, like, I read that and was like, oh. But apparently they just had like a close friendship. So I don't know, were they fucking? You I just not my business, but it definitely made me wonder.

Daniel 22:31

I'm gonna assume it was just a more traditional father-daughter relationship. And nothing sure.

Angela 22:37

Okay. Anyway, well, I gotta speed this up. So she and Marie Antoinette became friends. She was said to have worn the diamond, but like again, things are not going great in France, of course. A revolution is brewing. And Marie Therese, in all of her splendor, gets appointed to a position that comes with a salary of 50,000 crowns per year. She's like, um, it's like a position within Marie Antoinette's court, like the superintendent of the house. And she is basically like, well, everyone's like, hey, you're rich, wave the salary, like, like, read the room. And she's like, uh, no, you gave me this status, you'll give me all that goes with it. And so she gets herself put on the shit list a little bit for that one. Um, and like it kind of caused like such a snafu that she had a little bit of a falling out with Marie Antoinette, and then like a new favorite was named, but ultimately they patched it up and she was given a new actually, I think this was when she became the superintendent of the house. Um, which is like basically in this position, she like entertains on behalf of the queen, and she's a very close advisor to her. But honestly, like it's really a sad story because as the revolution starts cooking up and things are starting to devolve, she stayed by Marie Antoinette's side. Like there was an incident where one of the palaces was being stormed by a mob, and she was literally like in a room with Marie Antoinette, and like they had a table in front of her, and Maria Therese was like covering her with her body and just like being like they said she was so courageous and she was just like like very kind of like mama bear to um to Marie Antoinette. And like there were even all these correspondences back and forth where like she would leave the country for things and Marie Antoinette would like kind of basically be like, don't come back, like it's dangerous, like don't come, and she would be like, No, like I'm your like I'm I'm here with you through the end.

Daniel 24:30

And um That's like that's pretty wild. As much as it's easy to sit there and be like, these were the people oppressing the masses, yeah. They were still like in their own way, Marie Antoinette was a teenage girl thrown into that role. They weren't very much. No one explained to her that she needed to get like become a moral person and do what no ruler before her had really done and be like, actually, I shouldn't take like free stuff and money and power. It's yeah, I don't know.

Angela 24:58

And like I mean, they were like frivolous, ridiculous people, but they were definitely um they were products of their environments and the lives that they were brought up within.

Daniel 25:07

We know where it goes, but like to hear them talking about like it's dangerous and actually like worrying about each other as people is yeah, it it's sobering nonetheless.

Angela 25:14

Yeah, like she wrote her there was one thing I was reading where she had written her like an official letter that was like calling her back to her post, but then like had sent her a letter on the side being like, it's dangerous, like I don't it's not going well, don't don't risk it or whatever.

Daniel 25:30

Yeah.

Angela 25:31

Um, but no, it actually gets worse. Basically, she was arrested and taken to prison as you know, really the whole revolution came to a head. So she was arrested around the time that um that Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI were arrested as well. And she was taken to a prison, and the like a mob had formed around the prison and they were holding tribunals, and the prisoners were hauled up and questioned. And um, uh like honestly, they didn't execute they executed very few amount of prisoners after they questioned them, but they, you know, asked her all of these questions, and then they told her, swear to liberty and equality and hatred of the king and queen. And she said readily to the former, but I cannot to the latter, it is not in my heart. And because she would not admit hatred for the queen whom she loves so much, she was sentenced to death and pulled out into the courtyard and basically like ripped apart by the mob. And it was very brutal. And they they not only did they kill her, but they um like stripped her body and decapitated her and put her head on a spike and like ran her through the streets shrieking La Bamba, Lam Bamba. And it was like, I mean, like this is known because witnesses wrote about it, and like apparently one of the witnesses purchased a strand of her hair from her decapitated head and gave it to her father-in-law.

Daniel 26:51

Oh, just a fun keepsake.

Angela 26:53

Yeah, and like there's also a rumor that like her head was put on a spike outside the window of Marie Antoinette's jail cell or something. Like, really, really fucked up shit. Really, really fucked up. So yeah, really, really unfortunate end for Maria Triz. But um, and then of course, our main alleged victims, which honestly, I feel like she did a little a little worse. A little worse than Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVI.

Daniel 27:20

The quick lopping of the head sounds positively wonderful compared to being torn apart by an angry mob.

Angela 27:26

I yeah, I really honestly it made me kind of sick to my stomach to read her story. It was really sad.

Daniel 27:32

Um Yeah, and again, of course, they were doing bad things. The the the masses were upset for reason with their rulers.

Angela 27:39

I mean, it's definitely it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, like there was a lot of cause and effect there, but also like it still is human suffering and the human element. Like these people were people, they made a lot of mistakes, but and also like if you think about how these women like the way in which they live their lives in court and the like standards of beauty and the way that they were so and then like for your end to be like that your body is stripped and decapitated and like Okay, so the diamond back to the diamond. Um so when the monarchy falls apart, it totally collapses, um, the you know, France is in chaos, and looters gain access to the royal storehouse where the crown jewels were kept, and the whole thing is looted over the course of like several days, and it basically like apparently it started out with people just like walking in and quietly, like picking out pieces of the French crown jewels, and then like where it got out, yeah. Ooh, a little bit of this. Like, I'm just like imagining, you know, that the first person who got in there was just like like in an absolute like shopping spree of just like I'm imagining them just like spinning around and like trying on like diamond earrings the size of like um goose eggs, yeah. The French blue disappears.

Daniel 29:03

So because someone the the in the in the chaos of people just looting the the the treasures of the French monarch.

Angela 29:11

Yeah, babe was gone. She was on vacation. Maybe that was her slide.

Daniel 29:16

Do we know where she went or does she resurface after a mysterious time in England?

Angela 29:20

She resurfaces after 20 years in England.

Daniel 29:24

But does she tell no tales of where she was? Is it just unknown as to where who had her?

Angela 29:29

A lady keeps her secrets. Yeah. After her 20 years under the sun, just having a a grand old time doing God knows what? Um, we meet our next alleged victim, and his name is Wilhelm Falls, and he is a Dutch jeweller, and he's the one who cut the diamond into what it is known to today, like how it looks, coming in at a cool 45 karats. So babe starts at 116, gets down to 69, and now she's at 45. Which again, what is this theme of them like cutting these diamonds down so drastically? Um, anyway, so Vilhelm Falls, he is the one who kind of like finds the diamond again, I suppose. And um, he goes bankrupt and then his son murdered him and committed suicide.

Daniel 30:18

Oh yikes.

Angela 30:19

Yikes.

Daniel 30:20

That took a left turn.

Angela 30:22

Yeah. Although, again, I don't think he earns his place on our alleged victim's official list because that is nothing compared to what some of these other like Maria Trez, she d she deserves her um unofficial place. Not not Wilhelm.

Daniel 30:36

Being murdered by your son is quite a cruel tw twist of fate.

Angela 30:40

A murder suicide? Those happen all the time! When's the last time you saw someone get their head praided around on a spike in the middle of a revolution?

Daniel 30:49

Uh yeah. I uh I mean, didn't that happen in like Didn't that pretty much happen to Qaddafi only like 10 years ago? Worse than that, actually. Ugh.

Angela 31:00

You know what?

Daniel 31:01

Don't look into those videos. This is some wild time for yeah.

Angela 31:04

Stop it, Debra. Deborah you're killing this episode.

Daniel 31:08

With my realism.

Angela 31:10

Yes. Get out of here, Deborah. Um. Anyway, so the this is actually after Wilhelm, the diamond finally makes its way into the hands of the Hope family by way of a diamond catalog. So that existed at the time. Probably still exists today, to be honest with you.

Daniel 31:30

But they had catalogs back in the 1800s?

Angela 31:33

Yeah.

Daniel 31:34

I mean, this was like why that seems like weirdly ahead of its time to me.

Angela 31:39

And the Hope family was part of like an Anglo-Dutch banking dynasty, so I'm sure they had catalogs for all kinds of things. People were nasty then, they're nasty now. There's catalogs for everything, Daniel. Wake up! Wake up!

Daniel 31:51

I'm like imagining these people in the 1800s getting like a glossy catalog in the mail and then like getting onto their 80s phone to call their friend and talk about it as they look through the catalog.

Angela 32:02

Yeah, probably. Probably. Anyway, so it's a bit of time that the Hope family has the diamond and it's not not really doing much until Lord Francis Hope takes it into his possession as part of his inheritance. But there are stipulations to this inheritance, and basically he couldn't sell it. So he gets the diamond in 1887, and in 1894, he marries a concert hall singer named Mei Yo, and they get married, and they're having a grand old time, and she's gallivanting around wearing the diamond, and they're out and about, blowing through whatever money they have, which by the way, like he didn't get some whole big like chunk of cash. He's part of the Hope family, which again, they're like a banking dynasty, but it's kind of like the end of the era, and he all he gets is the diamond and he can't sell it. So they quickly run out of money and they go bankrupt. And so he goes to court to posit to petition to sell the diamond to pay off his debts. And finally, in 1901, the petition is granted, and also Mayo ditched his ass.

Daniel 33:04

Um Do we know why?

Angela 33:06

I missed their counseling session, Daniel. I don't know.

Daniel 33:12

I was weirdly invested. I was rooting for them.

Angela 33:15

Well, no, it honestly kind of sounds like I kind of picture them in my mind of just like those ridiculous type people. You know, the ridiculous types of people who like have money and then they just like but like they don't actually have money, so they go around like being too ostentatious and obnoxious, and yeah. He finally is able to sell the diamond, and he honestly he gets a pretty sweet deal, all things considered, because he did not get covered in pustules. I did not see anything about him getting torn apart by dogs, and his head was kept off a spike. So good on Lord Francis Hope. Yeah, he got divorced, he went bankrupt, and then he sold the diamond to Simon Frankel, who was a diamond merchant who worked in both London and New York. So for the next years, it hits another blah blah phase. Like I love how she like she practices some pretty good self-care. Like, I feel like the diamond goes and she like has her like Le Butou de Roy, and then she's like taking a break, and then she goes a little nut so, and then she does a little who knows what, and a little maybe maybe.

Daniel 34:14

I love the idea of her just like backpacking through Europe.

Angela 34:18

Yeah. She goes and she finds herself. She goes and she finds herself, and she does some soul searching, and she really like this is when she's like, I'm going to become the hope, Diamond. And I wonder if it's in this point in time that she's starting to be like, I'm ready for for a good long nap in a museum somewhere.

Daniel 34:35

Yeah, I've killed kings and queens.

unknown 34:37

Yeah.

Daniel 34:38

What lies ahead for me next? Rest.

Angela 34:40

Just kidding. She's about to go on a tear. So never mind.

Daniel 34:45

Yeah. She said she said, one more.

Angela 34:48

One more. Oh, oh yeah. She was just taking a breather before she locked in for the real thing. Um the depression hits, and the Frankel family is also trying to sell the diamond. But who is buying goose egg-sized diamonds at a time like this in this economy?

Daniel 35:04

Not a seller's market.

Angela 35:06

Yeah, yeah. Eggs, milk, diamonds. It's just not meshing together. So apparently, the Frankles, they um they called it the hoodoo diamond. And I think they were trying to like, this is sort of the part in her life when people are starting to try and like make her have some mystique. So the Frankles, they're trying to sell it, they call it the Hoodoo Diamond. She gets sold to a diamond collector named Habib, who then sells it in Paris to settle his own debts. Which I honestly don't think that I'm gonna attribute this like debt crisis to the to the diamond, because it seems to be a these diamond merchants, it's a very volatile industry because they're always going in debt. Like every single one of them we've come across in our diamond stories so far, and there've been some, they always end up in ruins. So in Paris, it makes its way into the hands of a man named Pierre Cartier.

Daniel 35:55

Like that Cartier Cartier?

Angela 35:57

That Cartier. And like I said, Frankel has been running his mouth, and so by the time she gets to Cartier, she's got a little bit of reputation, and people are not necessarily into it. They're a little bit sketched out, they're a little worried. And Cartier is having a really hard time selling it, and so he thinks he's got a potential buyer by the name of Evelyn Walsh MacLean, and she is the wife of the publisher and owner of the Washington Post.

Daniel 36:22

Uh huh.

Angela 36:24

That one.

Daniel 36:24

Interesting.

Angela 36:25

That one. Yeah.

Daniel 36:27

I'll hold my tongue.

Angela 36:28

Anyway, so she's a little bit like wishy-washy about it. An article comes out in the New York Times and honestly kind of uh fucks up Pierre Cartier's vibe because it says The Hope Diamond has brought trouble to all who have owned it. And in this story, a list of tragedies that have happened at the behest of Madame Diamond, Madame Hope Diamond, are listed out. And this is interesting because Um I think that this might be sort of the answer of what she was doing in some of her quiet time. Because like all of our all of our knowns were on this list, but we added a lot of new people to our collection to in this.

Daniel 37:08

We know where they so I mean, I you know what, I will say crap about media. Media sucks a lot, and in the 19 in the early 1900s, especially, they were making stuff up. I mean, some of the King Tut articles from like the New York Times were just nonsense, and like, so do we think a lot of this is just embellishment?

Angela 37:26

Oh yeah, this is like a super, super, super alleged list because this is all that she was up to when she like was in the Frankel hands, um, and then he, like I said, he's the one who was talking shit, and then he sold it to a collector named Habib, and then Habib had it, and it passes hands quite a bit before it gets to Cartier. So this is this like murky period of time, and to your point, we're gonna call this the allegedly alleged list of victims. But here's what she maybe was up to.

Daniel 37:56

So At the bare minimum, this is what the the story of the curses uh New York Times reported.

Angela 38:02

Um, and we sure do trust them. Um, okay, so um Jacques Collet bought the Hope Diamond from Simon Frankel and committed suicide. Prince Ivan Kanatovsky bought it from Collet and was killed by Russian revolutionaries. Kanatovsky loaned it to Mademoiselle Ledoux, who was murdered by her sweetheart. Simon Bencherides, who had once sold it to the Turkish Sultan, was thrown from a precipice along with his wife and young child. Ya. Sultan Hamid gave it to Abu Sabir to polish, but later Sabir was imprisoned and tortured. Stone Guardian Kalub Bey was hanged by a mob in Turkey. A Turkish attendant named Hever Aga was hanged for having it in his possession. Some years after it was sold to Francis de Lyo, who died in who died in misery and want. Francis, you're not special. We all die in misery and want.

Daniel 39:00

Yeah, that one just seems like the human experience.

Angela 39:05

Strike that one from the record.

Daniel 39:07

Okay, but I I mean a lot of these are just like the person had the stone and was murdered. Like, is there any d this just seems like someone was told by their editor they needed a story by printing?

Angela 39:22

And they were like, and I also feel like, and I don't know, I feel like when the story gets more and more exotic is when it's lies. Because that was the kind of shit they were up to back then, where like you could pin anybody, anything on anybody in like places people didn't understand because everyone was so dumb. I mean, we're still gonna be able to do that.

Daniel 39:39

Yeah, just throw in a couple exotic sounding names or place like yeah, places, and you could just say anything happened and no one's gonna do it.

Angela 39:47

Probably some undercurrents of racism and all kinds of crap like that going on there too.

Daniel 39:51

Yeah, yeah.

Angela 39:52

Um, but anyway, so if that was her rap sheet, good girl, good girl, baby. Way to go, Hope Diamond. Actually, like I said, that one is more in the uh, I feel like we're gonna give her the I keep forgetting what she was called, Le Bijou era.

Daniel 40:09

But this this article came out right as the Washington Post publisher's wife had just purchased the diamond, correct?

Angela 40:17

No, she was she was like, no, thank you. And then this comes out and it's like, I don't know, something happened because this article comes out and yet she still did come back around and she she bought the diamond. So I don't really understand that logic because she was a little bit like, I don't think I don't know, I'm hearing some stuff about it.

Daniel 40:34

Well, now it's a famous diamond. It's like all news is good, all attention is good in the world.

Angela 40:39

So the wife of the owner of the Washington Post, in a grab for status, would want to wear the Hope Diamond out into a public event? Curse be damned. Curses don't apply to billionaires.

Daniel 40:49

So she really went from not wanting to buy it to wanting to buy it seemingly after this article was posted? I mean, we're not saying pure causality, but I don't know.

Angela 40:58

I mean, I wasn't I didn't talk to her about it, but maybe.

Daniel 41:02

That's the way I'm gonna contextualize it in my brain.

Angela 41:06

She didn't tell me about that. Um Okay, but she is Evelyn Walsh McLean becomes our next alleged victim. It might be the McClain.

Daniel 41:16

As a DC area person, the there's a town here, McLean.

Angela 41:19

Maybe that's after them. I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna take your edit. I'm gonna take your note. Okay, so Evelyn Walsh McLean. Um, eventually the McLean's bought the jewel from Cartier for $10 million. Um, and honestly, it sounds like they were having a great time with it at first. She wore it out to parties. Also, there was a little bit of a a little tidbit in the Wall Street Journal that said that the Hope Diamond in its original pendant must have looked fantastic at parties circa the 1920s when it hung around the neck of owner Evelyn Walsh McLean's great Dane Mike. Like, although I bet that pissed the Hope Diamond off because she went from being able to like bebop around on a little ribbon around the King of France's neck to a fucking dog. I mean, dogs are great and everything like that, but I understand where she would be a little bit pissed about that, and it sounds like she changed her tune because it was eight years after they bought it that she starts being like, You've You've lost me. And she starts to go evil.

Daniel 42:14

I do love someone whose pet names are just like standard human names. So a giant dog named Mike is a great dame named Mike.

Angela 42:23

But I see I'm on Le Bijou's side because I feel like she is like, if it were me, I would be like, I used to prance around on the necks of kings, and now I'm on a dog's collar. I get where she's coming from.

Daniel 42:38

Honestly, though, I could see like this is a my I'm I'm fine. Like, I hope she left Mike alone. Mike doesn't deserve the curse.

Angela 42:44

Mike is fine. Mike the Great Dane is fine. So eight years after Evelyn buys the diamond and you know, the dog wears it, the Lebu Lebijou is basically she's had it with this woman, I guess. Um and actually, um, Evelyn's family is like, you need to sell this ring back to Cartier, or not this ring, this diamond back to Cartier. Like, they were a little bit sketched too. So I don't know, maybe like some little bits and pieces were happening, but really the the real chain of events kicks off with Evelyn's mother-in-law dying of pneumonia. And then shortly after, Evelyn's nine-year-old son dies in a horrific automobile accident. And then, and I think she had like four children, and so one son dies in an automobile accident, her daughter dies of a drug overdose at 25 years old. Her husband leaves her for another woman, and she ends up in an insane asylum. She's forced to sell the family's newspaper, The Washington Post, and then she d dies shortly after her daughter's drug overdose, and they say she probably died of a broken heart, and she was like alone broke. Like the diamond she it did a number on her.

Daniel 43:59

It stripped her. Everything.

Angela 44:01

Yeah.

Daniel 44:01

Yikes.

Angela 44:02

And her family sold the diamond to Harry Winston. And he, like, okay, it's kind of funny because Harry Winston is such a name that comes with like prestige and class. And he took it on a road show called The Court of Jewels and like traveled around for 10 years. Like, that sounds so trashy.

Daniel 44:21

Yeah, so it's such a hokey at like last stop before it lines up in its more dignified place. Like, was it like just yeah, being toured around and just being gawked at?

Angela 44:32

Something like that. But maybe she liked being gawked at because now she uh you know Harry Winston was convinced to donate the diamond to the Smithsonian, and he mailed it to the Smithsonian for $2.44 in postage, and it was insured for $155.

Daniel 44:48

So Okay, I have had things stolen in shipment where they're just like, yeah, sorry, at the warehouse it was taken. And you're like, wait, aren't you the ones that own the warehouse? That diamond made it through safely is shocking.

Angela 45:01

I don't think she was happy about it either because the mailman that um carried her in an envelope, his name was James Todd.

Daniel 45:11

No.

Angela 45:11

And shortly after delivering the diamond, his leg was crushed when he was hit by a truck, and his wife and dog died not long after, and then his house was burned down in a tragic fire.

Daniel 45:21

Oh my god.

Angela 45:23

Yeah.

Daniel 45:24

Just for carry that you know what? Help diamond, that one was uncalled for. Some of the other ones I got, but this poor dude.

Angela 45:32

She was in a bad mood. I would be in a bad mood too. I would. She used to live at Versailles, and then she's getting, you know, sent around in a fucking envelope for $2.44 in postage.

Daniel 45:43

I guess.

Angela 45:43

I understand. I would be in such a bad mood if I was her. I mean, I'm sorry, James Todd. But hey, it's not all bad news.

Daniel 45:55

Yeah.

Angela 45:55

The she has prospered at the Smithsonian Institute. She's dragged your ass in at least 10 times. She was the cornerstone of my 30th birthday. And I enjoyed seeing her. I have pictures of her in my phone. We are friends. For now. Um, although have my 30s been rife with all kinds of drama and trouble? Perhaps. Um, but yeah, well, yeah, so that's that's her. Maybe I feel like this girl cannot be done. Like, I cannot wait. You know it's happening. You know there's gonna be a story soon of like her being purchased or being borrowed from the from the museum.

Daniel 46:34

Um let's be serious. I mean, the thing is. One can only hope, pun intended. But yeah, someone, some some Mar-a-Lago-faced person in the administration is gonna need a diamond and they're gonna raid the Smithsonian.

Angela 46:51

You know what? I feel like that that would be really, really cool. That would probably make people vote in ways they I maybe would consider changing my votes if one of these Mar-a-Lago-faced women showed up with the Hope Diamond uh hanging from her neck, I would be like, oh wow, you must be fancy. Just putting it out there.

Daniel 47:18

Yeah, I I hate that that's not that unreasonable of a possible outcome at this point.

Angela 47:25

So, yeah. Um, so uh what do you think? Do you think it's a cursed diamond?

Daniel 47:32

I mean, I think I think it's a great story. Love hearing about it. We'll always love looking into these rich fuckers who get screwed over by their own riches. But again, I think it's just bad things happen throughout history, people are rich. This same diamond is, of course, gonna touch famous, notable people, and it's a great way to to stick it to rich and powerful by being like, yes, this diamond is cursed.

Angela 47:58

Yeah, but I feel like getting to know the Hope Diamond and really understanding her and her personality. I feel like she loves this for herself. Um well, she did seem a little bit touchy about it when it was in the news that she was um that she was cursed. So maybe she like kind of wanted it under the radar. I think that yeah, I think she's a bad, bad girl.

Daniel 48:21

I mean, at the bare minimum, it seems like she wasn't buying it.

Angela 48:27

Like old Sans, like maybe Jew. Um, no, I think she I think is cursed. I'm gonna I'm gonna say I did not think the Sancy was because I think it was a lot of time and place, but I think she I think the Hope Diamond was up to a lot, a lot, a lot of stuff in a short amount of time. Like she covered ground.

Daniel 48:48

It sounds like that she was on a tear for those 20 years, but those again, I I have to assume that that the New York Times stuff is kind of nonsense. There's just I don't know.

Angela 49:00

But I want this for her. So fine. I that's fine. We don't have to always agree because that's what makes things maybe cursed and maybe not.

Daniel 49:10

Exactly. See you all next week.

Angela 49:19

Cursed-Ice is an ish media production. It explores stories of alleged curses, historical mysteries, and supernatural claims. While we do investigate the history and the evidence behind these stories, ultimately you should decide for yourself what to believe. If you have questions, comments, or your own accursed tales to share, send us a hex at uh oh at cursedish.com. That's uh oh h all one word at cursdish all one word.com